DON'T HAVE A HOLE IN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT AND NOTHING MUCH TO SHOW FOR IT, AND IDENTIFY AND AVOID SCAMS.

After studying this Guide, you will be exceedingly critical and keep your money in your pocket until spending it on something worthwhile you will actually receive.

Those who will not like this Guide are scammers and sellers who want you to believe their sales talk without questions.

If you don't mind spending the money, you certainly don't want to encounter all those faults set out in the 3rd Guide,  you don't want to be caught out by a seller on those things talked about in the 1st. and 2nd. Guides and you don't want to get 'dazzled' by those 'wonderful accessories' included in the price.

Nor being blinded by science should be your speciality and if you are spending money, you certainly don't want to be cheated out of it.

 

Some suggestions:

1.          Know the shop prices and sale prices. You can find these on the net. Go to Google, click UK and type in the name of the product.

2.          Whilst on the net, add the word 'reviews' to your product, click worldwide and read what others think of that piece of equipment. You can also go to the website three double yoos-dot-scopereviews-dot-and then the first three letters of 'complete'.

3.          Does the seller have a 100% rating? If not, read the negative feedback(s) and take a view how serious they are. Also, read the seller's response(s).

A seller's response to a previous negative feedbacking buyer something like this, tells you how YOU will be treated if anything goes wrong :

"Read the listing moron, if you can read".

"Clearly says no refunds under any circumstances you stupid arse".

"You is a maniac and a retard".

"So what if it did arrive broken, only got your word for it. You are a cheat !!"

"Try paying for it first. You are a bloody liar !! Liar !! Liar !! "

The sort of person I would deal with is someone who responds to a negative feedback with something like :

"Had you contacted me first, I would have refunded in full or replaced it", or

"I have already refunded your money. Why neg me?"

You can't ask more than that.

All of these actual responses appear in feedbacks on Ebay.

There are some sellers who give negative feedback to aggrieved buyers who give them negative feedback. Then, the seller contacts Ebay to get both 'red marks' deleted by mutual agreement. Therefore, in feedback histories, look for comments with no red, green or grey marks at all.

4.          Read the listing and compare it with what is written in the 1st Guide. Has the seller really told you anything or is it just general 'blurb'? Ignore words like 'professional', 'huge', 'enormous' and similar descriptions set out in the 1st. Guide.

5.          Is the seller a private person or a dealer trying to look like a private person? Click on other items for sale and have a look.

6.          Is it new or used? Whichever, deduct the price of postage from the lowest price you found out in the first paragraph. That should help you as to the maximum price you are willing to bid. Once you have settled on your maximum price, try to avoid the temptation of having paid say, £90 for a used scope plus postage when you could have bought it brand new for £80. Let it go. There will be others.

Once you know the maximum price you are willing to go to, bid it. Even if the current bid is £1.20 and you put in £275, the Ebay computer will give you a bid of £1.40 and you can then walk away and relax for a few days. If you win it for, say, £205.00, fine. If not, then you did not exceed your maximum. Don't worry. There will be another.

7.          People sometimes say in their listing 'I don't know anything about telescopes', or, 'I am selling this for a friend'. That may be true, and it leaves you out on a limb. Alternatively, that may really mean 'I don't want to say anything about its condition'.

8.          Don't be afraid to ask a dealer any or all of the questions you will find in the 1st. and 2nd Guides.

9.          Ask the seller if the carrier he intends to use will be sending you an invoice for customs duty some weeks after delivery when your seller is in a non-EU country, is a dealer and the telescope kit is new. If he says 'no' save your question and that reply and keep three prints of it. Very often, carriers sue for customs duty and you find Bailiffs hammering at the street door to enforce a judgment. That is not from personal experience. Give one print-out to the Bailiffs, have one for the Court and have one for yourself or your solicitor (Attorney).

If an American seller adds State Tax, that is not payable by anyone living outside that State.

10.         Be critical rather than trusting. Here is an advert I have made up. See what you can spot in the paragraphs I have designated with letters of the alphabet. Is this a test?  If you like. Answers at the end.

(a) We have been dealing in telescopes for many years and all the staff here have extensive experience and are amateur astronomers. What you see is a magnificent scientific instrument, not the sub-standard thrown together cheap efforts other ebayers sell. No cheap and nasty accessories are included because we give you quality essentials to enhance your hobby, not detract from it. With us, you will never be anything but satisfied. Just look at the Technical Specification now set out for you.

(b) A reliably designed Newtonian reflecting telescope with a gloss violet finish supplied with Huyghen eyepieces nearly one inch in diameter of focal lengths of 4mm, 10mm, 20mm and 32 mm to produce a maximum of x500 magnifications using the precision made x2 Barlow lens also included. The strehl of the plate glass mirror is 0.912 and it attains a Dawes limit of 1" of arc. The mirror has a 1: 14 ratio.

(c) This magnificent instrument is supported by a quality mounting that has free movement in all directions so that you can find celestial objects quickly and spend the minimum time setting up your equipment.

(d) All of this is supported by a firm and strong tripod that folds in three sections for easy height adjustment making the use of the telescope suitable for people of all ages.

(e) Absolutely free of charge, you will receive a Moon Map and a chart of the heavens.

What do you make of that? Answers later.

 

11.   SCAMS

Let me give you an example. Around the 3rd July 2006, I saw on ebay a block of scopes all with the same seller. The equipment was magnificent and very expensive to buy, eg Questar, Vixen, Swarovsky, Celeston C-11, in fact, ten items in all.

Each had a starting price of £100 and no reserve, the seller giving his e-mail address for questions and a reason for not using the Ebay Ask the Seller a Question. The listings were for ONE DAY. My reaction was 'Wow !!!! but strange'.

Every item was listed as being in the UK. When I used Community, I saw the seller to be in Canada. More Strange. I looked at the seller's feedback and it stood at around 181 with one negative. I saved all 10 items in My Ebay.

The next morning, all had disappeared from My Ebay but I had not deleted them. There they still were in all the telescope listings with a few hours to end of auctions. I checked the sellers feedback again. It had gone overnight to 499 with 7 negatives.

Using Community again and seller's items for sale, the seller specialised in the sale of mountain bikes.

Replying to my e-mail, Ebay stated that there had been a hijack of the seller's ebay identity and all ten items were removed before end of auction even though some people had put in bids.

I am not saying that I am a hero. What I am saying is that if you have grasped the basics in the Guides I have written, you will be able to spot something too good to be true. Then, if you take just basic precautions, you will never be the fool soon to be parted with your money, either for non-existent telescopes, an existing telescope too awful to use or a second-rate scope that is way overpriced. More likely, you will spot something that is a fine instrument in good condition and a good buy.

Photographs and location of item being sold. Provided the seller has a digital camera, it is easier to take a photo and load it into the ebay computer than find a manufacturers photograph and do the same. If a private seller uses a manufacturers photograph, I wonder why. My personal preference is to see the actual telescope being sold in the seller's garden, lounge, conservatory, bathroom, wherever. Personally, I like to know where the item is by the name of the town or city. What makes me uneasy is when location is stated to be an e-mail address or a website. Small points perhaps, but combine these with other factors, and you may spot a scam. To name other factors, what about  --  retail price £1200. Age stated in listing: new or 2 weeks old or used once. Starting bid: £50. Reserve price: none stated. Photograph: from manufacturer's website. Location of item: e-mail address with a server you have never heard of.

A very similar specis of scam is when you see the same scope in more than one listing (in one case, 4 listings). Usually, the same photo and general blurb is used with the same private e-mail address to ask the seller a question and get a buy it now price. Look a bit closer and you will see that the identities of all the sellers are different and are in different countries. Look at the number of feedbacks, it is likely to be a low number. Click on seller's other items for sale. There are likely to be many (443 in one case) all with exactly the same starting price and on a 1, 2 or 3 day listing. How can you be such a prolific seller with such a low Ebay feedback rating? Lastly, look at the bids. Does it say that the bidder's ID is kept private? If so, the seller is placing bids using his other identities to get the bidding up to something to make the scam worthwhile.

If you look at the other items for sale, you are likely to find all sorts of cheaper items such as dolls dresses, sewing kits, hats and the like mixed in with the more expensive items all with similar starting prices and the e-mail me before bidding instruction. Click on a few of those and see if the locations of those items are the same as the location of the telescope. Also, look to see if all the identities of the sellers are the same. If not, there is probably a highjack of an Ebay identity.

The easiest scam to spot is the one by someone who is either lazy, an amateur, or both. This morning (19th Aug. 2006), I saw a reflector listed with a familiar photograph used by skies_unlimited. However, the price was not in £, the location of the item was in China and the Ebay identity was a few letters with a (0) feedback. The description commenced with the words "Skies Unlimited are proud to offer ...". That scammer. What a shmuck !

 

12.          If the listing says something like  FROLOGICAL TELESCOPE  N2-P29-6A  Used but in good condition and there is no photograph, you can turn up the scope using Google to see exactly what it is and its specifications. That gives you the information to make an assessment.

Answers:

Using the basics set out in all the Guides, here are the answers.

(a) Designed to grab your confidence and trust. The words tell you nothing about what is on offer.

(b) The technical data is intended to impress you by blinding you with science. The strehl immediately tells you that only 91.2 % of the light goes to form the primary image. It is less than the 95 % that most optical companies of repute would tell you is needed.

The Dawes limit. For a telescope lens or mirror with diameter in centimetres, the scope will separate two objects and show them as two objects if you take 11.6 and divide that by the diameter. The answer is then the number of arc seconds (1 arc second = 1/3600 of a degree) those two objects appear apart in the sky. The Dawes limit is a measure of resolving power. In the fictitious example, 11.6 divided by the diameter = 1. Therefore the diameter of the mirror is 11.6 cm. That is a four and a half inch scope. The maximum useful magnification of a 4 1/2 scope is  4 1/2 times 30 = 135, so what is the x500 all about?

The x2 Barlow and the 4 mm eyepiece gives a magnification of 500. Therefore, with no Barlow, the magnification is 250.  Then, 250 = focal length of mirror divided by 4mm. That gives the focal length as 1000mm. The f number is then 1000 divided by 116 giving f 8.6.

Huyghen eyepieces are wrong for this type of telescope and its f number. Even so, they give magnifications of  x250, x100, x50 and x31. With the Barlow, x500, x200, x100 and x62. That means no eyepiece is supplied that can get to the maximum useable magnification and the 4mm eyepiece is surplus to requirements. So much for the 'quality essentials'.

The thickness is 1 and the mirror diameter is 14. Since the actual diameter is 116 mm, the thickness is 116 mm divided by 14, giving 8.3 mm. Is it a parabolic mirror? No. It is a piece of plate glass ground spherical with a centre thickness something like 4mm. It is not Pyrex and will be susceptible to changes in temperature. As it is spherical, you will get colour distortion because of the low stop number, f 8.6. Even if it were parabolic, the mirror is so thin, it will sag under its own weight (if it has not already sagged) with permanent loss of image clarity. Best point about it is that it is so thin, it will take no time to cool down.

The eyepieces are 0.96 inches, and you have already read my comments on those.

Gloss violet? You gotta be kidding me!

(c) That sounds very much like an alt-az mounting and you know the limitations of those. The advertisement does not mention fine adjustment controls. Probably because there are none. Nor is any finder mentioned.

(d) This three section tripod. If it is the run of the mill tripod for this type of mass produced telescope, it probably won't be much good. I could be wrong, but taking a view on what the listing says and the interpretations made, is this scope worth anything?

The answer is yes, but for an 8 to 10 year old and pay no more than £15 ($27) for it and no more than £6 ($11) postage. Your 8 to 10 year old will likely have 6 or so hours of play with it before it gets broken only to end up in pieces in the toy box. The seller has obviously learned nothing in the many years of conning, oops, sorry, selling, and neither has the staff (probably a cat and a budgie). It is not magnificent and is sub-standard for serious observers. Probably, the only quality you will find will be in the lumps of polystyrene packing in the box it comes in.

(e)  Maps? For me, anyone including maps, free or not, is a dead giveaway. People who sell real telescopes never bother about maps.

If you don't follow any of these figures, it means that you have not read everything written to guide you.

 

NOW THE BIG QUESTION. WHAT SHALL I BUY  ?

The short answer is I don't know. Reason is, you must decide what you want. However, you have options.

Absolute begginer: Binoculars (7 x 50)

Next step up: Personally, I would not entertain the 60mm refractor because it is not that different in aperture from binoculars, although the focal length is longer. Your images will be a lot dimmer than with binoculars. With 60 years of hindsight, I'd go for a good 4 to 6 inch reflector or a 90mm or 4 inch refractor. I wouldn't want to pay that much, but I would want the best quality for the money that's available. 

Regarding a refractor, Seeviewo through their astro shop supplied a 4 inch rich-field refractor to a reviewer and it was published in 'The Sky at Night' (July 2006) that "it was a remarkably good performer" with a "bright, high contrast image which is surprisingly free from serious optical aberration". The bottom line was "decent optics at rock-bottom price". As I thought that skies_unlimited supplied the instrument (they sell the longer focal length refractor), Chris at Seeviewo corrected me on that. It is even better than I thought because the rich-field has a much shorter focal length and would be prone to all sorts of image defects. According to the reviewer, that seems not to be the case.

If you cannot make up your mind, there is another way to help yourself. I have 'met' some really nice people on Ebay. I have also 'met' people who are just aloof. Try this. Bring up telescope listings and click on completed sales. That will give you a list of items sold. E-mail a few buyers. Tell them that you cannot make up your mind and ask what they think of the scope they bought. Some will ignore you but some won't. Choose completed listings a few weeks old so that buyers have received the parcel and had an opportunity to set up and observe. The only drawback with this is that the buyer may not have any experience with other scopes and may have nothing to compare it with.

Up a notch: You should now be very knowleadgable and not need my advice.

 

ONE THING that is not mentioned in any of the Guides is just as some camera companies buy in the same SLR lenses where the manufacturer in the Far East has screwed on a lens ring with that camera company's name on it, so to with telescopes. If you read the web reviews, you will see that many telescopes are clones of each other. For example, the Astroglowtube 150/1000 will be made in the same Far Eastern factory as the Super-Convex 150/1000, both marketed by different companies at different prices. Both scopes are identical except for tube colour and manufacturer's name. Do your homework and save a bit of money.

Also, just because the seller is located in say, Kiev or Berlin, don't assume that the scope is Russian or German. It is very likely to be a Far Eastern import.

 

HOW MUCH TO PAY ?

For an indication, please see Guide number 6.

 

PLEASE WOULD YOU TELL ME IF I HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

I saw this telescope on Ebay and did a BUY IT NOW. The lovely woman selling it told me on my own email server that it was her husband's scope and before he died, he was an amateur astronomer since childhood. He was a member of the Princeton Astronomical Association and was one of the few Americans awarded an FRAS (Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society, RAS, London) . She telephoned me after I gave her my number. Lovely woman but so tearful. She said the sight of the scope makes her flood the place with tears and she must get rid of it at a BUY IT NOW price of $6500.00.

Honestly, it's really a monster. The shipping costs alone to the UK amount to $1200. That's three crates, one with the 18 inch optical tube and the rest you probably know about.

I sent her a bankers draft (cashiers check) drawn on my UK bank. That was 19 weeks ago and I still haven't yet received anything or any word from her or emails.

Do you think I have anything to worry about?

1alienx replies: Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Thinks - An 18 inch scope on an equatorial mount with no drives or any bells and whistles something like 20 years old in good condition should run at something like £4500 which translates to around $9000.

If you are a potential buyer, please have in mind that these Guides are based on 60 years experience and are for your benefit. As at this update, over 1700 have read this fifth Guide but only 70 ish have voted. Come on guys, I'm not asking for money. If you found this Guide practical and informative, please click in the YES box.

Thanks.