NOW JOIN THE STAR RATINGS WITH PRICES:

LISTING NUMBER 2:

Brand new telescope kit from our Ebay shop at an unbelievable price. German EQ5 equatorial mount on a 24 inch steel tube with three aluminium feet. The mounting has electric drives on both axes with a hand controller.

The telescope itself has a diffraction limited parabolic mirror overcoated to give 97% reflectance. Its aperture is 7 inches, focal length 35 inches (almost 900mm) (f/5), strehl ratio is 0.987 and is accurate, as is the flat mirror (held in a four vane spider), to better than one-eighth wave. The thickness ratio is 1:7 and the flotation cell has 9 points. (see the PART on upgrading for what those mean).

A finderscope with illuminated cross hairs is provided and has a 60mm diameter lens and is x 5.

Four Erfle eyepieces of 25mm, 16mm 7mm and 4mm are provided that fit the 1 1/4 inch (32mm) focuser which is rack and pinion having an aluminium alloy rack and a steel pinion. Magnifications are x35, x56, x128 and x224.

Everything above is included in our BUY IT NOW price of £155 and free carriage worldwide.

Verdict:  Never mind rating it. If that description were true, the price should be at least £750. It is a lie from start to finish. Four USED Erfle eyepieces on Ebay will cost you about £100 and a USED mirror of that quality should cost you about £170 if you could get one on Ebay, and that would be a very good buy.

Whilst the buying public inadvertently buy 'rubbish' then 'rubbish' will be continued to be made and sold by whatever means. If you find that hard to believe, read the guide 'Poor Telescopes From China Scam' by fenderstratbrian listed in the Ebay telescope guides.

LISTING NUMBER 3:

We is Russian company just open for selling good used teleskopa with quality for astronomika uses import from mother Russia. It is Glazunov-skope.

All our teleskopa tested before selling with good astronomers knowledge what to do.

Being now pleased to offer 8 inch Newton reflektor on tripod with equator head driven electric to follow star.

The Newton reflektor has mirror ¼ wave and the second flat mirror as well. We is giving test certificate of test showing 0.95, 1000, 4.8, 1:12 that giving you 250 magnification with 4mm okular.

Okular with the teleskopa is 4mm, 10mm and 25mm of the Kellner.

Head mount is German made by Russian on metal tripod with three leg taking 12 volts through reducer for 230 volts or 110 volts to be set and include VAT in price.

Listing Price :        £0.99

Buy It Now Price: £ 249.99

Analysis:

No known maker’s name:       0*

8 inches:                      10*

Parabolic:                     5*

3 leg tripod:                  0*

electrically driven equatorial:      8*

¼ wavefront:                 8*

0.95 Strehl Ratio:          7*

f/4.8:                             10*

1:12 thickness ratio:     0*

overstatement of magnification:  No.    10*

Three Kellners:             6*

Star rating = 64 divided by 11 = 5.8

Verdict: Not the best, not the worst

Price:

If this were an average scope as listed on Ebay with an 8 inch Chinese spherical mirror, electric things, all singing and dancing with lots of drum banging, star charts, moon maps and get free postage with accessories bought now, it would be priced roughly the same as this one.

This one appears to be a lot better and though a range of £95 to £115 is given, that does not apply because that is the range for the 8 inch spherical mirror efforts. This one is worth more. What then is the maximum you should bid?

It is not unreasonable to double the mid range price. 95 + 115 divided by 2 to get the average of £105, then multiply by 2 giving £210. Reducing that by 25% for its star rating gives 80% of £210 = say, £170. That is as far as I would go for such a star rating.

Questions you should ask: Is there a reputable maker’s name or which factory produced it, finderscope/red dot finder, slow motion controls, 9 point flotation cell (see upgrading PART), how many spider vanes (same PART), setting circles, what tube material, 32 mm or 0.96 eyepieces – and then adjust the rating and maximum price.

This NEXT ONE is a difficult one made difficult on purpose.

LISTING NUMBER 4:-

I am selling my used 6 inch reflecting telescope on an equatorial mounting and pier that I made some years ago.

The tube and finderscope were supplied by a company in Cleethorphes and the tube is pvc. The parabolic mirror and flat mirror, mirror mount and flat mirror assembly were bought from a company that used to be in Farringdon Road and moved to Kent and the mirror maker was David Hinds.

The equatorial mounting and pier is from a Russian Helios and it all fits together and is not driven but can be if drives are purchased.

The mirror has a focal length of 48 inches making it an f/8. Eyepieces included are a 10mm H, 15mm R and a 25mm MR.

Unfortunately, the parabolic mirror has a lump out of it on its edge as you can see in the photograph. The ‘ding’ measures about 15mm by 8 mm and was done when my son attacked the scope with a screwdriver some years ago when he was young.

I had the mirror tested and the Ronchi and knife-edge tests showed that the ‘ding’ had not affected optical performance at all. It is still parabolic and gives excellent results. I will try to find the test certificate. It will need re-silvering as the original silvering is some 36 years old and is starting to peel at the edges and the mirror centre and the flat mirror are dark grey/black.

Analysis:-

The mirror is a David Hinds and the company is Fullerscopes, now, Broadhurst Clarkson and Fuller. Hinds mirrors are very, very good and the score for the mirror on reputation without thinking about wavefronts and Strehl would be 10* (that would be the same for UK Sinden mirrors – both are names you can trust as well as Orion Optics UK). However, the mirror is damaged albeit that the damage has not affected performance.

To show you about chips, scratched lenses and lumps out of the edge, bear with me.

The diameter of the mirror is 150mm so the radius is 75mm. The area of the mirror is 3.142 (that’s pi) x 75 x 75 square mm = 17671 sq.mm.

The ding has an area of 15 x 8 = 120 sq.mm.

The percentage of total area of mirror occupied by the ding is 120 divided by 17671 all times 100 = 0.68% which is not worth talking about.

Nevertheless, the ding and the need for re-silvering should be taken into account because re-silvering the main mirror AND flat mirror will cost up to £60 ish depending on what needs to be done.

Taking a view, I’m going to rate the mirror as 7*

The eyepieces score  is, 0 + 0 + 2 divided by 3 = 0.66

Helios equatorial mounting scores 8*

The pier scores 10*

Average star rating is   7 + 0.66 + 8 + 10 divided by 4 = 6.4

Deductions = none. However, I do not understand how the seller can say the results are excellent with such inappropriate eyepieces.

Verdict: The upper end of not bad quality. In fact, the scope is better than that and is let down by the eyepieces included and the need for re-silvering. If used with Erfles and/or Plossls and re-silvered, the rating would be at least 9* but the price must be on the listing and not what the star rating would be if you spent more money.

price:-

For the actual star rating you got, the price should be 20% lower. The question is 20% lower than what? There are no Ebay shop sellers listings for one of these because it is a one-off scope.

What you will need to do is put all of your knowledge and common sense to work to get your maximum price beyond which you should not be willing to go.

This is how I would do it.

To buy (if you could) all the USED bits and pieces to put a scope like this together will cost me around:

Mirrors:  £100 (already re-aluminised)

Tube, mirror holder, focuser, tube clamps, dovetail and spider: £120

Helios head: £50

Pier: £40

TOTAL: £310

[You can find out the new prices from the website price list of Beacon Hill Telescopes]

Now you have a good working scope to put on Ebay with a reserve of  £300 but with no eyepieces.

Deducting the cost of USED eyepieces needed (say £100 for Erfles/Plossls) and re-silvering (£60) gives 300 minus 160 = £140.

The star rating gives a 20% reduction, that is,  £112.

Now comes taking another view. Put back into working condition, this scope is really worth having. The mounting is stable, the optics (apart from the eyepieces) are excellent and if the mirror cell and flat mirror holder were supplied by Fullerscopes, they work and may only need slight greasing.

My maximum bid would be £110. If I won it for that, the total cost to have something really worth using would be about £270 and I could not get all the pieces for that money.

Chances are that if there is no reserve, I may be the only bidder because the ‘ding’ will put off most buyers who do not know that scratches on lenses and dinged edges make no difference if performance is unaffected. With a refractor, you do not focus on the scratch. If instead there was a crack in the mirror, my bid would be only for the mounting, pier and tube assembly, say a maximum of £60. I would then get a good primary mirror from Orion Optics and still have a fine scope for less than £300.

Thing is, for the entire kit, I would not want anything entrusted to Royal Mail and for such a quality scope, I would be willing to drive and stay overnight in a hotel if necessary. My eyes would love me forever. Pity it is not an 8 or 10 incher.

LISTING NUMBER 5  -  HAVE A GO AT THIS ONE YOURSELF

REFRACTOR ASTRONOMICAL TELESCOPE ON TRIPOD AND ALT-AZIMUTH HEAD. 60 mm COATED OBJECTIVE LENS WITH FOCAL LENGTH 355 mm. TWO, ONE AND A QUARTER INCH EYEPIECES  25mm H AND 12 mm H. NEAREST FOCUS IS 10 METRES. BRAND NEW IN BOX. INTEGRAL PRISM IN FOCUSSING TUBE IN PLACE OF A STAR DIAGONAL. WE ARE A POWER SELLER. BUY IT NOW PRICE, $ 100.00.

YOU HAVE ALREADY ASKED SEVERAL QUESTIONS AND THE REPLY IS "WHAT WE ARE SELLING IS DESCRIBED IN THE LISTING AND WE HAVE NO MORE KNOWLEDGE".

If you wish to buy an optical tube assembly (OTA) only because you have a mounting or intend to buy a separate mounting, the price should be in the region of 55% of the prices above.

For a separate equatorial mounting and a tripod, also about 55% of those prices.

Should you want to buy a used Skywatcher equatorial head with counterweights and tripod:

EQ1  -  £25      

EQ2  -  up to £35      

EQ3  -  up to £55      

EQ3(2)  -  up to £85      

EQ4  -  up to £160      

EQ5  -  up to £260      

HEQ5  -  up to £390     

EQ6  -  up to £500  all mounts depending on age, condition and amount of use.  

Add about £25 for optional drives and £15 for optional polar scope but first check which of these have those things as standard.

These quality mounts are in high demand so prices are rather high but you should ask the seller if the gears have any missing teeth and if the black grease that the factory uses has been replaced with another grease. In fact, the manufacturer’s  grease is probably the best one.

ANONYMOUS TELESCOPES 

These have no makers name on the tube or the listing photograph is of the telescope with the name not in view and there is nothing in the description. It and its mounting may look like another telescope you have seen separately listed, but if this one identical to it, only the seller knows. If the seller wanted to name the telescope, he would have. If the manufacturers wanted to put their name on the tube, they would have. If you ask the seller a question, you may well receive a variety of reasons for this.

Again, another type of anonymous telescope is this. Suppose the ebay shop is called 'Krusticle14'. The listing states the telescope to be a Krusticle telescope with Krusticle eyepieces. If the seller is making telescopes in his garden shed, the description is accurate.

GETTING SATISFACTION

Once you have gone through the star rating for the average type of scope, I fear that it is likely to be in the region 1.5* to 5*, meaning either awful or not worth writing home about. If it is more than 6 stars, great!

It is only natural for you to think like this - I don't mind spending about £200 but only if I get something decent and not cheap rubbish for good money. I don't mind if it's new or used, but it just has to be worth it.

That is really understandable. So what are you going to do, shop around?

Consider this.

You want a refractor. According to the ’Sky at Night’ review, the Phenix performs well and Alan at skies_unlimited will not get you involved in a second mortgage for a Phenix on an equatorial head. I have an 80mm Skywatcher refractor mounted on one of Alan's Chinese EQ3 heads and a Chinese aluminium two section tripod. Quite stable even when it is windy here in the most Southern part of Malta and looking over the Med. in the direction of North Africa where the wind blows from.  

Whilst not of the same quality as my Skywatcher EQ6, it does the job very well. Then again, it cost a fraction of the price of the EQ6.

BUYING NEW.  

1.     Go to the website of Orion Optics, Crewe, Cheshire and have a look at their Dobsonians. There is nothing wrong with a Dobsonian, especially for a beginner, and it is a heck of a lot better than some rubbishy alt-az on a bendy tripod. Chipboard is not expensive and a large percentage of the price will be in the optics. Orion optics are excellent and their mirrors come with a test certificate detailing exact focal length, strehl ratio, exact aperture and a couple of other things (I know that for a fact) and you will not need an equatorial head nor a tripod with that design.  

2.   Consider having an optical tube assembly (just the tube of proper material to be mounted equatorially, the mounted mirrors and the focusser) from Orion WITH the tube clamp to mount it, and a Chinese equatorial head and a stainless steel tripod from Alan. If there are any difficulties getting that lot joined up, Barry at Beacon Hill Telescopes at Louth will oblige if you talk to him.

I am in no way connected or an agent for the people mentioned above. They are all nice guys and fall over themselves to see you right.

GETTING IT EVEN CHEAPER – buying used + new

With the last section in mind, you may find a Dobsonian listed on Ebay made by Meade, Celestron, Skywatcher, Helios or another good make. You would certainly be advised to decide which aperture you want and put in a bid if the optical specifications are right for you.

If at some later time you would like an equatorial mounting and the optical tube of your Dobsonian is pvc (wall thickness at least 2 mm) or aluminium, you could buy an equatorial head and a good tripod and use the tube mounted on that.

If the actual tube is not suitable but the optics are fine (because the tube is made of compressed cardboard), you could ask Barry at Beacon Hill to provide a tube, a spider and a mirror cell and mount that lot in his tube using your existing focuser, all to go onto a suitable Chinese head provided by skies_unlimited (Orient Express Catalogue). All you would have to do is give Barry the head and tripod as well as the tube and then go back to him for collection.

GOOD SCOPES (Star Rating = 8* to 10*)

As already said, these will not be dealt with because much depends on what is on offer and the intention was to comment only on the lower end of the market.

However, for Meades, Celestrons, Skywatchers, Tals and the old Helios scopes (some are now Skywatchers), you can approximately double to triple the prices already given.

LISTING NUMBER 6 - HAVE A GO AT THIS ONE YOURSELF.

10 INCH NEWTONIAN TELESCOPE MOUNTED ON A SKYWATCHER EQ6 WITH TWO TUBE CLAMPS AND A DOVETAIL, WITH COUNTERWEIGHTS AND SPARE COUNTERWEIGHTS, THE DEC SHAFT HAVING BEEN EXTENDED.

THE EQ6 IS MOUNTED ONTO A SMALL PIER WITH HEIGHT LEVELLING HANDLES IN EACH OF THE THREE WHEELED FEET AND ONE SPIRIT LEVEL ATTACHED. THREE 6 INCH 12mm THICK ALUMINIUM PLATES SPREAD THE LOAD UNDER THE ADJUSTING FEET.

THE FINDER IS AN 80mm SKYWATCHER REFRACTOR THAT COMES WITH TWO GRATICULE ILLUMINATED EYEPIECES, 12mm (RED LIGHT) AND 4mm (WHITE LIGHT) ORTHOSCOPICS WITH EYESIGHT ADJUSTMENT. ALSO INCLUDED IS A FAN VENTILATED DEVICE TO COOL THE FLAT MIRROR.

THE 34 mm THICK MIRROR AND 8 mm THICK FLAT ARE BY ORION UK WITH A ZYGO INTERFEROMETER TEST CERTIFICATE DETAILING F = 47.3 INCHES, STREHL 0.989 AND 1/9.6 WAVEFRONTS. THE FLAT IS BETTER THAN 1/10 WAVEFRONTS. THE MIRROR IS HELD IN A 9 POINT THREE FAN VENTILATED CELL (BEACON HILL TELESCOPES) CLOSED TO THE EXTERIOR (AIRTIGHT). BOTH MIRRORS ARE HILUX COATED (97% REFLECTANCE).

THE TUBE IS 12 INCH DIAMETER PVC REINFORCED WITH FIVE WOODEN RINGS SCREWED FROM THE OUTSIDE AND PAINTED HAMMERITE SILVER GREY. AN AIRTIGHT HINGED DOOR IS BUILT ONTO THE TUBE IN THE VICINITY OF THE MIRROR AND IS LARGE ENOUGH TO INSERT THE AVERAGE SIZED HAND.

ACCESSORIES INCLUDED ARE A HARTMAN MASK, MYLAR SOLAR FILTER (APERTURE IS THAT OF AN 8 INCH), MASK THAT MAKES THE MIRROR EFFECTIVELY AN f/8.

 MEADE DS IMAGER, CELESTRON RED DOT X2 BARLOW, RED DOT 10mm PLOSSL, RED DOT 15 mm PLOSSL, CELESTRON BLACK X2 BARLOW, CELESTRON EYEPIECES 40mm ERFLE, 25 mm PLOSSL, 16 mm PLOSSL,  6 mm OR,  LANTHANUM 4 mm OR AND A LUMICON EASYGUIDER.

FILTERS INCLUDED ARE AN ORION USA MINUS VIOLET, SKYGLOW AND SEVERAL OTHER FILTERS OF DIFFERENT COLOURS PLUS A MEADE ROTATING BARREL CROSS POLARIZING DOUBLE FILTER THAT GOES PROGRESSIVELY TO EXTINCTION. A COLLIMATING LASER IS ALSO INCLUDED WITH ITS ADJUSTING WEDGE.

THE FOCUSSER IS BY ORION UK AND CAN BE USED BY HAND OR A MOTOR CAN BE ENGAGED (MY DESIGN AND MADE BY BEACON HILL TELESCOPES). HAND CONTROLLERS FOR THE EQ6 AND THE FOCUSSER.

THIS TELESCOPE IS 3 YEARS OLD AND AN AIRTIGHT CAP MAKES THE WHOLE TUBE AIRTIGHT WHEN INSERTING THE BRASS EYEPIECE BLANK INTO THE FOCUSSER.

PERSONAL PICK UP ONLY AS THE OVERALL WEIGHT IS AROUND 60 KG. TRANSPORT IS ASSISTED BY A DOUBLE WALLED INSULATED BOX THAT HOUSES THE MIRROR IN ITS CELL AND THE ELLIPTICAL FLAT THAT IS EASILY REMOVED FROM ITS 4-VANE BEACON HILL SPIDER.

A CHINESE TWO SECTION LEG TRIPOD WITH A CHINESE EQ3 MOUNT IS INCLUDED FOR SEPARATELY MOUNTING THE 80mm SKYWATCHER.

GENUINE ENQUIRIES ONLY. PICK UP IN MALTA OR THE UK BY ARRANGEMENT.

STARTING BID: 0.99GBP.

RESERVE PRICE : 2931. 07 GBP.

IN FACT, THIS IS THE ONE I USE. ANYONE WANNA BUY IT? WHY DID YOUR FACE SUDDENLY TURN A DIFFERENT COLOUR?

THE PRICE JUST REFLECTS THE COST OF THE PARTS TO PUT IT TOGETHER.

IF  YOU ARE KEEN AND WANT SOMETHING THAT REALLY WORKS AND GIVES RESULTS, THAT IS THE SORT OF MONEY THAT NEEDS TO BE SPENT.

LET'S NOT BEAT AROUND THE BUSH AND BE HONEST AND TRUTHFUL SAYING IT AS IT IS.

IF ANYONE WANTS TO SPEND JUST £200 ON A TELESCOPE KIT, THAT WILL BE OK, JUST LIKE THE 7 X 50 BINOCULARS, IF IT IS ONLY TO GIVE A FEEL OF THE SKY BEFORE DECIDING IF THE HOBBY IS FOR YOU. IF SO, USE THE PREVIOUS GUIDES TO BUY THE BEST ONE.

IF ASTRONOMY IS FOR YOU, BE WARNED. MANY PEOPLE I HAVE KNOWN IN THE PAST 'UPGRADED' FROM A £200 SCOPE TO A £400 SCOPE AND GOT BETTER RESULTS, BUT NOT A LOT. SOME WENT TO £800 AND THE RESULTS WERE DISTINCTLY BETTER, BUT THE SCOPES WERE 6 TO 8 INCHERS.

ALL THE KEEN ONES WOULD LOVE THE BIGGEST SCOPE THEY COULD GET, BUT THAT WILL COST. THERE WAS A TIME WHEN PATRICK MOORE'S PERSONAL SCOPE AT HOME WAS A 12 1/2 INCHER IN THE SOUTH OF THE UK BY THE COAST, AND YOU HAVE SOME IDEA OF WHAT THEY COST.

IF ASTRONOMY IS FOR YOU, GO FOR IT. IF YOU DON'T, YOU WILL SPEND THE NEXT 30 YEARS CHANGING FROM ONE SCOPE TO ANOTHER AND THE TOTAL COST WILL BE FAR, FAR MORE THAN IF YOU INVESTED IN A GOOD ONE AT THE START BECAUSE ONE-THIRD OF THE TOTAL IT WILL COST IS THE RETAILER'S PROFIT MARGIN. 

THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS BUYING A CAR THAT YOU WILL NEVER OUTGROW BECAUSE THAT SORT OF CAR IS A BUGATTI VEYRON COSTING AROUND ONE MILLION. HERE, YOU ARE TALKING AROUND £3000, NOT A MILLION.

LASTLY, IT TAKES A FEW MONTHS TO GET USED TO YOUR EQUIPMENT AND THOSE WHO KEEP THEIR SCOPES A SHORT TIME AND THEN 'UPGRADE' ARE CONTINUALLY GETTING USED TO DIFFERENT EQUIPMENT WITH ALL THE ASSOCIATED PROBLEMS.

Please remember that if you see something like Astro-Splendid 8 inch APO refractor on EQ90 Plomandi mounting with GoTo bought last week for $54 000 and unused to date. Offered at a starting bid of $1 with no reserve including full set of Tele-See Lanthanum eyepieces and Billious high-transmission filters. Bidder's identity kept private. Location of seller - Arctic. Location of item - Antarctic. Please email for buy it now price. It is a scam because there is no telescope to sell. It doesn’t exist.

What do you think of this listing?

Here we have a brand new and boxed precision made Maximus Magnificatio manufactured by the Caesar Company. It is a refractor of 59mm diameter that comes with a Barlow lens and five eyepieces to give a maximum magnification of 1050x. The telescope has a x6 finderscope and is mounted on an equatorial head with setting circles and a rigid tripod. The Buy It Now Price is £ 47.31.

When you read through the PART DEALING WITH ACCESSORIES, I would urge you to do your sums Froligit style.

IMPORTANTLY, PART EIGHT DEALS WITH SCAMS