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How To Buy Vintage Keyboards & Synths on Ebay

by: lawrenson1963( 194Feedback score is 100 to 499) Top 5000 Reviewer
51 out of 54 people found this guide helpful.
Guide viewed: 2593 times Tags: keyboard | synth | synthesizer | analogue | vintage


The first thing you should make your mind up on, is what you want to buy and how much you are prepared to pay for it. To do this successfully, you should have some idea as to what sells for what in the current market, which means that you must do some research. Not only will this help to prevent you from paying over the odds, but it will also help prevent you from being overly optimistic regarding low bids on highly desirable bits of kit. There is a plethora of informtion on the web, from such sites as Vintage Synth Museum, as well as numerous forums maintained by long-term dedicated users.

Some bits of kit are, indeed, highly desirable, and there are many people out there who regularly scan Ebay for these items. Therefore, you are not going to pick up (say) a Jupiter 8 for less than £1,500 unless there is something wrong with it, or it's a scam. Of course, if you are a seller, you can help encourage the removal of time-wasters by listing the kit at a realistic reserve (based, of course, on condition and rarity). A fully working Jupiter 8 in good/average condition, for example, could reasonably be listed with a reserve of £1,000. But resist the temptation to be too greedy too early on, otherwise bidders will be detered from bidding early on. If you set your initial asking price too high (eg if you ask for an opening bid that is bang on the price that the kit is likely to sell for), bidders will simply wait until near the end of the auction to put down that asking bid, and you will not generate the bidding frenzy that will lead to the sort of "rip-off" price that you are hoping for. If you are too scared to leave the bidding to the vagaries of the market place, then put it up for a "buy it now" price. Better still, list it for sale on a specialised music site, such as Sound On Sound.

And bidders can help out by putting down an initial realistic first bid, as this will usually see off the time-wasters. What's the point in putting down your highest bid on a Jupiter 8 at £500, when you know it's going to go for at least 3 [edit - 5] times that sum? Do yourself and everyone else a favour by putting down the bid that you are actually prepared to pay (unless, of course, that is all you can afford, in which case, do not get your hopes up).

At the time of writing this, the following bits of kit are (typically) going for the following prices:-

Jupiter 8 - £2,500

Jupiter 6 - £1000

Roland MKS80 - £1,000 (expect to pay £1,200 with the MPG80 controller)

Prophet VS - £600

Mini Moog - £1,750

Oberheim Xpander - £900

Sequential Circuits Pro One - £400

Sequential Circuits Six Track - £300

TB303 - £800

TR808 - £600

TR909 - £900

Linn Drum (LM2) - £350/£450

Prophet 5 (Rev3.2 and Rev3.3) - £2,000

OB8 - £1,750

Juno 106 - £375

Oberheim Matrix 1000 - £200

Andromeda A6 (not vintage, but a classic in the making) - £1,000+

SH-101 - £250 (grey model) (Expect to pay £400 plus for red or blue models, which are exceedingly scarce)

[I will endeavour to update this list from time to time, so please do revist, or send me your suggestions for items to include] [I last editted this guide on 11 January 2008, and confirm that these prices are roughly accurate. The older analgoue kit continues to experience steady growth in prices. The price of the Jupiter 8 has seen a massive hike, with sellers asking huge "Buy It Now" prices, usually in excess of £2,000. A Prophet 5 (without midi) sold recently for more than £2,000. The recent market has seen a scarcity of good quality analogue machines over the months since Christmas.]

These are the bits of kit that I regularly keep my eyes open for. I would like to strongly emphasise that these prices are a guide only, and some items have sold for considerably more than these prices, especially where there is a bidding war going on. The condition and service record of vintage analogue kit counts for a great deal, and the prices I have listed above are what you should expect to pay for gear in pristine condition. Kit with sticky keys, "missing" voices and dead L.E.D. lights are a sure sign that something potentially seriously wrong is amiss, and a warning to you that you should be extremely weary about bidding anything at all. Certainly, for such bits of kit you would not be bidding anything near the prices I have listed above, although some unscrupulous sellers do periodically try to pass off dude kit for top prices (usually with such feeble excuses as "I'm selling this for an uncle, and I don't really know what the buttons do... etc").

Bear in mind that some bits of kit are extremely rare and can only get rarer, so prices for fully working and well maintained kit are likely to increase rather than drop over time. It would not be unrealistic to assume, I believe, that prices on these bits of kit could double over the next 5 years, with the rarer items (such as the Prophet 5) becoming very expensive to acquire.

By and large, analogue kit is pricier than digital kit, and pure analogue kit (eg the Prophet 5, Jupiter 8 or OB8) is usually pricier than digital/analogue hybrids (such as the Juno, the Prophet VS, etc). Earlier versions of kit (such as the Prophet 5 Revs1 and 2) are pricier than later versions (eg Revs3.2 or 3.3), usually because they incorporate older components. But beware, that many of these items are irreplaceable should they blow. I own a Prophet 5 (Rev3.2), which has factory fitted midi that is rock solid. The synth had been fully serviced two years previously and is a very good example, for which I paid £1,550. Some say that the Rev3s don't sound as good as the Revs 1 & 2, but they are far more stable, and the chips can be replaced if they blow. I use mine all the time, and it is without doubt one of the best-sounding synths I have ever played or recorded with, and it is easy to program good usable sounds.

By the way, I had my eye on a Jupiter 8 at the time, which eventually went for over £2,000, and since the Prophet is a far rarer item (there were substantially less numbers made of the P5 than the JP8), I thought that I made the right choice, especially as I managed to acquire the MKS80 (Super Jupiter) and MPG80 programmer for a very reasonable £800 only a couple of months later.

It is horses for courses, though. The Jupiter 8 always has been and always will be a very desirable bit of kit, what with its on-board arpeggiator, its eight voices of polyphony and its sleek, sexy looks. And it does sound very different to a Prophet 5, thinner and less bullying in a mix. Again, get to know your market. If you are an investor, re-sale values will always be important, but to us musicians it's the sound that's important. In other words, not all analogue kit sounds the same, and this is due to a complex mix of factors, such as the oscillator and filter configurations, the patching capabilities, and the types of components used. If you are a musician (as opposed to merely an investor), don't buy (say) a Prophet 5 simply because you want an "analogue" synth, but try to find out what a Prophet 5 actually sounds like, since it sounds very different to (for example) a Jupiter 8, or an Oberheim OB8. If you want a specific sound, such as an analogue bass, don't be fooled into believing that you must buy a Mini Moog. This synth has a very distinctive sound, and it won't necessarily fit well with your music, whereas the more common (and far more obtainable) Roland SH-101 could be just the ticket. Also, don't go by the sound of software plug-ins as your sole guide to the way a real analogue synth sounds or performs. I own both the PRO-53 (a software plug-in emulation of the Prophet 5) and a Prophet 5, and I can assure you that the real live Prophet sounds far better than its poor imitation software counterpart, being not only far more harmonically richer and complex, but also having greater depth, warmth and "power" to the sounds. Of course, the PRO-53 sofware is considerably cheaper than the real thing, and is not all that bad at what it does. Just don't use it as your guide to what the actual synth sounds like.

Some bits of kit are exceedingly rare and, therefore, rarely (if ever) come up on Ebay or, indeed, any where else, such as the Oberheim Matrix 12 or the Prophet 10. Be prepared to pay serious money for these bits of kit should it ever surface, and be extremely sceptical that such kit is either in full working order, or being offered for sale by a genuine seller (since these items could easily and more securely be sold for many thousands of pounds privately). Other bits of analogue kit come up regularly, and can be bought for good prices by those on a budget looking for real analogue. Look out for:

  • the Roland SH-101 (pay about £250 for a good GREY one - the RED and BLUE models are very rare and will command higher prices), and these are a great stand-in for Moog bass sounds or TB303 patches (when linked up to a step-sequencer - but you'll need a cv-midi converter box to link the SH-101 to a midi sequencer);
  • the Oberheim Matrix 1000 (I've seen these sell for less than £150 recently, which is a ridiculously low price, as they are a fantastic source of real analogue sounds), and if you have a Kenton Control Freak, you can edit the patches;
  • the Sequential Circuits Six Tracks (which go for around £300, and are a thinned down Prophet 5, but lacking the same degree of programability, although they do have a fairly good midi spec for their age);
  • the Roland 106, which can be found for about £350, has some classic dance and techno sounds, but can be used for everything else as well;
  • the Oberheim OBX drum machine, which is a good stand-in for the Linn Drum, and can be picked up for about half its price.
  • the AKAI S2000 sampler, which can be picked up for peanuts these days, and is a great way to get into sampling (many great hip hop artists made whole albums on these machines), and the AKAI samplers have really good filters, and the effects card (if you can get it) is truly superb.

Some items have a kitch value, such as the TB303 or the TR909, and they will command values that are disproportionate to their real musical usefulness (unless you produce nothing but techno, in which case both these items are essential). Such is the way of the market, I'm afraid, and you will either have to pay the price or get out of the bidding. Sometimes, the alternatives are not any cheaper. For example, Future Retro's 777 is probably the best TB303 emulator (and also has the capacity to go way beyond the sonic limitations of the original), having the benefit of being completely analogue, having a switchable 3 pole and 7 pole filter, 2 oscillators each with a sub-oscillator, and sporting its own sequencer that can be step sequenced in real time (unlike the real machine), but it is considerably rarer than the real item (only 700 were made), hence the price for a 777 (should you even find one) will be high, as much as (if not greater) than the asking price for the TB303 itself. I actually own a 777, which I acquired off Ebay for £650, at a time when TB303s are going for £750 or more (a 777 recently sold on Ebay for approx £600, which was a bargain price considering both the rarity and the useability of this synth). I love the fact that I can link it up to my midi chain and play it like a regular synth, but also get all the usual bleeps and squeals as emanate from a real 303. I own a TB303, but I rarely use it now that I have the 777.

Most vintage analogue kit is extremely basic compared with today's synths, lacking such features as midi control (out/in), key velocity sensitivity, key after-touch, or anything other than a very basic midi implementation. Also, many buyers have an over-romantised view of what is achieveble from analogue synths, speaking in almost hushed tones about "fat" (or "phat" if you want to adopt the fake American ganster lingo) bass and lead sounds, without actually knowing what this all means. These buyers tend to be extremely disappointed when they purchase the kit (usually at great expense) get it home only to discover that all they can get out of it are raw wave sounds, bleeps, hisses and squeals. Vintage kit does not sound as "contemporary" or processed as modern kit, lacking the pristine crystal sounds of digital and having no effects. With most old kit you are extremely limited as to the sounds that you can program on it, compared with modern synths. Only a few of the vintage pure analogue kit has a sufficiently powerful modulation spec to help you achieve those beautifully evolving pads that are so easy to create with modern kit. Consider the Super Jupiter, or the Oberheim Xpander (but even this latter piece of kit has digitally controlled oscillators and envelops). If you have never owned vintage analogue kit, be prepared to go right back to basics. You'll either love it or hate it. I, for one, love the challenge of trying to coax a lush string patch out of my P5 or my Super Jupiter, using nothing more than two square waves slightly detuned against each other and with a touch of pulse width modulation to give me the requisite chorus effect. Of course, when you put these synths through a modern effects processor unit, they really come to life!

Some vintage kit was fitted with factory midi (such as the Prophet 5 Rev3.3, and some of the later Rev3.2 versions), and these tend to be extremely reliable, but even these fantastic synths lack velocity sensititivy and aftertouch. Be extremely wary of kit that has been "retro" fitted with midi, and check that it was fitted by specialist engineers. There are many botched "upgrades" knocking around, especially on the TB-303. Many musicians, such as myself, prefer (and will buy) only untampered kit, so as to preserve inviolate the true sound and essence of the vintage synth. My Prophet 5 Rev3.2, for example, has factory fitted midi (meaning that it was fitted by Seqential Circuits at their factory, and not by some budding amateur DIY enthusiast). This fact adds greatly to the value and playability of the synth, and is something that you should definately look for. For those of you that want to link your vintage kit up to midi, you can always use an external interface, such as those made by Kenton, Phil Reece, or Doepfer.

Some sellers do try to exploit the current desirability for true analogue kit. Do not pay £2,500 for a beat-up 1974 Mini Moog, or £2950 for a Jupiter 8 (as is occasionally available from California, or anywhere else), unless you are absolutely desperate for that piece of kit at that precise moment in time. It's far better to wait for another bit of kit to come along, and there are still quite a few good examples of these items still knocking around at more competitive prices. [Edit - this was true when I wrote the initial draft of this Guide over a year ago, but the market has changed over the ensuing months. Now (in April 2007), there is a scarcity of good quality analogue machines on the market, which will mean that competition for such items will be fierce. I expect prices for the rarer kit, such as the Jupiter 8, Mini Moogs, Prophet 5 and OB8, to have risen substantially.]

If you are not sure what you should pay for a piece of kit, simply use the resource on Ebay that lets you see what other kit of the same type has sold for in recent times, or do some further research on the web (there's plenty of information out there). Of course, this kit will only get pricier as time goes by. If you must pay well over the odds for a bit of kit, make sure that (a)  it is in absolutely pristine condition, (b) has been regularly and fully serviced, and (c) that you intend to hang on to it for a few years before you sell it, otherwise you are going to lose on the deal.

For UK buyers, beware that some USA kit is set up on 110 or 120 volts, rather than 220 or 240 volts, as is required in the UK, and that you will need to use a step-up transformer to use this kit in the UK. The reverse applies, of course, to American buyers looking to buy UK kit. Some musicians believe that analogue kit does not behave or sound the same when using it with a transformer, and you should take this into consideration when thinking about buying expnsive kit from the USA (and vise versa). Other bits of kit (such as most of the Oberheim synths and the Linn Drum machines) are able to switch between the two types of voltage. Bits of kit such as the early Roland groove boxes (the TB303, and the TR drum machines, for example) run off batteries and/or DC adaptors, so this issue does not arise.

Beware of the con-artists. They ARE out there. Beware of the Chinese scammers, who periodically target synth and other high-end musical items. Usually, these items are easy to spot, as they have simply (and lazily) been copied from bona fide auctions that ran little more than a few weeks before. Beware of those who profess to own bits of kit for sale, but who actually do not, and are merely setting themselves up as impromptu (and usually extremely bad) agents. And beware the so-called "second chance" offers. I lost out recently on the purchase of an Eventide Eclipse effects processor, and I received over ten "second chance" offers from different people, each professing to be the seller! These people are criminals, and rely on you being as stupid as they are, to contact them outside Ebay. See my Guide called Safe Buying: Scams and Scammers, generally.

I make a habit of:-

(a) only paying cash on collection

(b) never buying from anyone with a rating of less than 25 unless there are very good reasons for me to trust the seller (and I have spoken to him and know his address)

(c) never buying from anyone with less than a 100% feedback record (and never from anyone who has left rude and insulting comments to those who have left neutral feedback

(d) always insisting on speaking to the seller before confirming my purchase

These are my rules of thumb, and I do appreciate that I am particuarly fussy, but it works for me. My feedback speaks for itself; I am honest, polite and efficient with people, and the least I expect is that they are the same with me. My rules of thumb ensure that I get the item I want, that it is not damaged in transit, and that I never get ripped off, and it also means that I can test that the kit works before I hand over my cash. If you cannot follow these rules (and even I have taken the chance on the odd bit of kit), only pay by cheque into a recognised bank account, since your transaction can be traced by the police should it ever become necessary to report the "seller" for theft. Never pay by Western Union transfer or any other payment system that does not enable you to trace funds directly to the payee's bank account.

Vintage kit is expensive to replace and liable to have been abused over the years, so it is highly reasonable that you should insist on following these types of rules; and a bona fide seller will not object to your being cautious. I was able to knock off £50 for the asking price of a Roland MKS80 because the programmer (the MPG80) appeared not to work. It turned out to be nothing more than a faulty lead that was easily fixed with a spot of solder; the point, is of course, that I took the risk that the problem did not lie with either the synth or the programmer, which would have entailed a far costlier fix; and that I was still prepared to buy the kit from the seller, who was genuinely embarrassed by the incident. I was a genuine and reasonable buyer dealing with a genuine and reasonable seller - deal concluded!

Finally, remember, that the person selling the kit usually knows full well its rarity and probably has a fairly good idea what it's worth in the current market. Also, these bits of kit are eagerly sought after by amateur and professional players alike, who regularly scan Ebay and who will always bid just below the current market price for any particular piece of kit. It is unlikely, therefore, that you are going to pick up a bargain on Ebay for this type of gear by "catching someone out," but you will be able to buy good vintage kit for the going rate, for most of the items I have listed; and it is hoped that this guide will encourage you to bid with confidence. Also, this guide should prevent you from paying well over the odds and giving your money away to the rip-off merchants or the scam-artists.

Analogue is not cheap. There are many cheaper alternatives, keyboards, synths and modules that are capable of producing near-perfect emulation of all the classic kit. Consider, for example:

  • the Roland JP8000,
  • the Novation Supernova,
  • the Nord Lead 2,
  • the superb Korg Z1,
  • the over-looked Waldorf Micro-Q,
  • the Novation Bass Station,
  • the execellent Roland S+S sound modules (such as the XV3080), which have good vintage sound waves loaded up as standard

(to mention but a very small few), and these bits of kit can be picked up for a fraction of the cost of the true analogue kit. I own all these bits of kit, so I can personnally attest to how good they sound, and to how accurately they can emulate that vintage analogue sound. They also have the advantage of being able to produce sounds that is not acheivable from vintage kit, and with a top-notch midi specification.

But for those of you who hanker after the real thing, and who are prepared to pay the price, analogue kit has its own devastating lure and luscious appeal. And the good news is, that the kit holds it value in the market place, so that (provided you look after the kit, have it serviced every now and then by an expert and provided that you did not pay a rip-off price for it - eg by following the tips in this guide!) when you come to pass it on, you should easily be able to recover back what you paid for it. Ebay is a great resource for seeking out and buying vintage analogue synths, and it should be viewed as such, rather than a gateway to picking up expensive kit at knockdown prices.

I hope that those of you who read this (very brief) guide find it helpful. If you do, please press the button to show your appreciation.

Les Lawrenson (purveyor and enthusiast for all things analogue)


Guide ID: 10000000002150642Guide created: 18/10/06 (updated 26/06/08)

 
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